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Kog'maw... OP? :(


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#1
OFFLINE   Cordain

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Ok so before I get flamed with replies like "u just don't know how to counter him" and "he's squishy focus him" and so on and on, read my thread and try to give me an honest opinion - thanks in advance.

So here's the deal. I don't know WHY riot buffed kog'maw, but I must admit, they did so well. Perhaps a little too well. He just demolishes my team when I'm playing with randoms, and I find it very hard to beat a "carrying-kogmaw" team even with a premade. His range is enormous, his farming is excellent if he knows half a thing about how to last hit, his harassing takes a heck of a lot of concentration to avoid, and if you don't avoid it every time you get punished HARD.

And when you do manage to dodge his ulti and slow (which all in all is not that hard), when he activates his long-range ability you just can't escape him unless you run away aka he can zone most other mids farily easily.

Then put a taric on his team. A shen. A kayle. Anything to prevent his death or buff him. He sticks back in teamfights for abit then unleashes. There's just no stopping him. You rush to kill him, by the time you do, he kills your carry and takes half the health of some other guy away, and the rest of his team finishes you off. You don't focus him, he kills atleast 3.

It wouldn't be a problem - I've dealt with many carries in my time and know that all that damage comes with a price, and the game can be turned around against a tristana/ashe/yi/tryn/olaf/u name it. But I'm telling you. This guy's range makes it VERY hard to deal with it - especially since most I've met this week carried flash and ghost. Since today's randoms seem to prefer those super-duper melee barbarian/warrior/wujujedi types (since I see atleast 2 of em each time) it's especially hard to deal with kogmaw.

I don't know what's happening. Maybe I've had bad team setups. Maybe. Maybe we were doing things wrong. But I've never had so much trouble dealing with kog'maw until this week. I'd like a few opinions on this. Is kog'maw really this good? is it my bad luck? I don't get it - he's been my nightmare of the week.

I apologize for the long thread, new member :D

#2
OFFLINE   Fhoom

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I've been feeling your pain; I've found Kog to be an almost unstoppable opponent; No matter what I do, he melts me in the spot I stand, especially when they build attack damage and attack speed. I'm beginning to question this myself. The ONLY way I found to counter him was to focus fire on him.. but then he explodes on you. I just can't seem to beat him in any way.

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#3
OFFLINE   YourEvilTwin67

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So far the only way that I have beaten him is to slowly inch forward in a 1v1 just focusing minions then close the gap really fast and try to beat his face in. the only reason i can think of that this works is because ppl that play him aren't used to being rushed so they dont know what to do for a few seconds

#4
OFFLINE   Moonblade92

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I dont think he is that powerfull,mainly cause he does not build AD,and hence,can not lifesteal.In that terms he is a lot like Twitch,onnly with higher range.The only REAL option to counter him is to have a carry/assasin/burster come in the fight later and unload on him.

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#5
OFFLINE   Anirie

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To be honest i'm playing Akali most of the time and as you all know her ulti gives me to shorten that extra range between me and kog'maw, so i personally don't have a problem with him, but his range is kinda OP for any other who can't reach him fast. The biggest problem is that once hes fed and hes killing your tank and by the time i reach him (first 2 secs) my team is backing up because of him scaring the shit out of your team mates. Its not just bad luck and not only one of us had it this week, the only way is someone like Akali, Kassadin, any stealther, tank with taunt or anyone who can stun and reach that slimy little worm to focus him down and stop him for destroying your team.
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#6
OFFLINE   Cordain

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I agree he gets shut down by a burster. I have to say, akali is nearly perfect for the job, as is evelynn (yea, evelynn) and other fast-burst champs such as kass. But the problem is, if he has a half-decent team to support him, that task becomes increasingly hard, they'll hang on to him and hug him and kiss him on the forehead and protect him like he's the fate of the world. Again, in GOOD teams.

#7
OFFLINE   Gwynbradd

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Weekly War - Tier 2
Kog'Maw's range with activated Bioarcane Barrage is 750, Tristana at level 18 has a permanent range of 703 and a escape mechanism.
There are hardcounters against him, e.g. someone already mentioned Akali. If you don't want to play against him, then just ban him, well if you play ranked that is.
And the majority of his damage is magical, at least early on, so you can decrease it with some magic resistance.

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#8
OFFLINE   Iplaywithsinged

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Just played a game with a kogmaw on the enemy team. Teemo at mid was 0-6 so he fed kog. At 25 minutes in kogmaw had 23 kills and would KILL PEOPLE IN 3 AUTO ATTACKS. Also he had 3.2k hp and would towerdive past like 4 towers.

#9
OFFLINE   Anirie

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I had a game earlier against a Kog'maw and this guy just wont die... he wa ssuported by 4 support champions i don't remember who but they had a Kayle, Shen and Soraka all supporting him while he was sitting in the middle between all those monsters each with guardian angel and banshees and killing us one by one by one. If any Kog'maw has even half of the support this guy got for that match its good enough to destroy the entire team.
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#10
OFFLINE   BorutoRaikou

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Who said he doesn't build AD? Most Kog maws do. Give him a madreds and a frozen mallet, and he takes away half your life in 4 autoattacks with W activated. If you're too slow or too squishy, he might even kill you. Just for walking into range of his w. That's what makes him OP. 4 autoattacks shouldn't take half someone's life away. Only EXTREMELY fed tryndameres should be able to do that. But kog doesn't even have to be fed to rape. He just needs madreds. And maybe the lizard buff, to slow you down instead of trying to hit you with his own slow move. All riot really did was give him attack speed. But that's not what people complain about. It's the fact that he has a built-in madreds as an ability, and can get a madreds on top of it. Its really bullshit.
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#11
OFFLINE   Rageboy99

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Quote

Just played a game with a kogmaw on the enemy team. Teemo at mid was 0-6 so he fed kog. At 25 minutes in kogmaw had 23 kills and would KILL PEOPLE IN 3 AUTO ATTACKS. Also he had 3.2k hp and would towerdive past like 4 towers.


soooo you say a fed champion destroyed your team?
well.. pretty much any carry that goes 6-0-x at the start can destroy your team

also wtf was teemo doing? i play koggi somewhat around 2 months now so i just believe that i´m pretty good with him and i never ever went 6-0 against a good teemo at mid. as mentioned above assasins and high burst chars destroy kog well teemo for me is a bit of both. teemos blind arrow shuts down mostly all dmg AS koggi is dashing out for the duration. now many people say but kogs range is so insane harass blabla with teemo go in blind arrow run away repeat early game you will at max get 1 hit wich nearly doesn´t deal any dmg and avoid the acid gaze after.

this is only an example sure kog can go on with R and hit back but the truth is AS kog doesn´t deal good dmg at all with living attelery

i wouldn´t say kog maw is op there are much more insane champs around this days like garen

here a little list of counterchamps for kog maw(i also play a few of them and succed to counter those nasty worms):

akali, udyr, kassadin, pantheon, ryze(to some extend), evelynn, olaf, xin shao, teemo,

and basicly any carry with exhaust can counter kog maw 1v1 if both are on the same skill/item lvl as him.

i realy dont get whats up with people these days saying hes op since patch when he dealt even more dmg before(the math has proved it) , any carry can destroy your team if not focus fired on and when the enemy team is hugging kog maw well then still focus him. i always focus champs like ryze/kog/annie even if they are behind their tanks/melees/whatever cause its plane dump to not focus a carry
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#12
OFFLINE   Chantal

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He can still be countered like most carries can, but he simply puts out way too much damage at no risk. Riot themselves have said that he's too powerful right now and he's gonna be getting nerfed somewhat in the future. It's sad really, just Kog'maw is enough damage for a 5 man team; he's basically instant win with two teams of equal skill.

Also, most counters people have been listing don't have enough range to work on Kog'maw.

#13
OFFLINE   shieldbash

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@up: no risk? please play him for a while and see how risky it is (eg should i engage now? wheres dat gawd damn akali). Also Kog maybe a win only if opposite team screwed picks.

Theres no problem with Kog, there is a problem with ppl who dont have the idea how to succsefully deal againt him.

Quote

Ok so before I get flamed with replies like "u just don't know how to counter him" and "he's squishy focus him" and so on and on, read my thread and try to give me an honest opinion - thanks in advance.

But this is the problem mate, you should do some research about picking and counterpicking. My favorite antikog Tool is Olaf (thats because i dont have and will never have any assasin-like heroes;p). When im playing kog my greatest fear is Akali, Kassadin, Xin. Wise kog will go with exhaust/flash or cleanse/ghost against them, so you will have to get some awereness on kogs summoner spells (eg look at the game time when he uses something).

#14
OFFLINE   Cordain

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OK, mr. Rageboy99, would you care showing me said math? I am quite curious.

In any case, I just wanted to share a little experience i had earlier. I just played a match as shen and had a kogmaw on our team. So I decided on one specific strategy. Protect kogmaw with all I got. Of course, I helped my other team mates as well but I paid special attention to kogmaw. Here's one example of what happened.

Pushing mid lane, him and me. 4 people defending. Xin Zhao, 3k hp with most of his build complete, charges in with shen and anivia. Audacious charge -> I shadow dash him, taunting him off kogmaw. Kogmaw lands 3 hits. I counted - 3 hits. Xin is 60% hp. He activates his long range thingy, he kills Xin before he reaches tower. In the meantime, In case you were wondering, I was holding off anivia and akali came to help. But the fact of the matter is, one "tough" melee carry got downed by kogmaw in about 6 hits (keep in mind he was bloodrazor/mallet built, no BF sword in his inventory).

I know you kogmaw players like your champion but please take a moment and understand - he is OP, he doesn't compare to other carries simply because, indeed, he takes few risks if he has the right summoner spells and someone to back him up. Yea tristana has a big range. Yea tristana has jump. Yea tristana has high dmg. But she needs much more items than him.

And yea I played olaf against him. I died. His team realized I was the biggest threat so they focused me. It's not always 1v1, keep that in mind shieldbash.

#15
OFFLINE   shieldbash

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I didnt say: Get Olaf and Kog is down, i just pointed that Olaf is one of the champs able to reach him and burn down him quickly (R+ghost). They played it well or your team failed assiting you and keeping them busy. Dont just rush on him, wait for the fight to begin, seek him and destroy him.

Also i cant believe that xin got owned in 6 hits. Madreds and Bio-Arcane Barrage (maxed) deal magic damage equal to 10% of targets max hp and this dmg is reduced by magic resistance, lets say he was also doing around 100 physical dmg with each hit (46 base +54 if he waas lvl 18).

Xin has 3k hp
Total damage done by Kog 1800 magical + 600 phys = 2400 so Xin has 600 hp left (and here we are assuming that xin had 0 magic res and 0 armor which is impossible)

Mardreds+W will never deal 10% of targets max hp. Its usually (looks like, cause i never tested it exactly) around 5-7% imo.

Put some1 on lane against him who can cut him off farm (my biggest pain in laning phase is morde, unless hes so stupid to try harass me with shields down but thats uncommon). MH also works well if she knows how to ricochet - shes able to outrange kog.

Good night, its 4oclock in the morning in europe :(





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