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Cho Gath? nom nom nom.


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#1
OFFLINE   Satariel

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Recently I've picked up Cho Gath and started tanking with him. I haven't had many successful games with him so far, but in each I've been in, I haven't done insanely bad. Those were random queue games and I believe luck played a major role.

I'm just really conflicted about this champ. I know he is a viable tank, I've seen what he can do firsthand. Please don't post things like "Cho isn't a top tier pro tank of awesome, gg don't play", I like the tools Cho brings to the table as a tank, in addition to his massive size. (That sounds dirty...:s)

I strongly believe that if I really get used to the champ, i can play him very effectively. I just have a couple of questions:

1) How do I effectively create threat?
Many people stay away from me because of Feast. When I begin an initiate, they back away from me, because DO NOT WANT. Also, my massive size deters attackers.

2) Tips for using Rupture?
I'm very sure that Rupture is how Cho can make DPS stick to him during a teamfight. The slow will force people to attack me because they can't reach the other DPS or Support.

3) Mana for the Rape Train?
Should I make getting defensive mana items my priority? What is your guys' opinion on Frozen Heart?

4) GA Worth it?
My last question is about GA. I heard it saves stacks for Cho, but post nerf, should I even bother?

Thanks for your time. :)

#2
OFFLINE   TwilightPrince

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I've also been playing Cho lately because he's free this week. My interest with him began some weeks ago when he was free again and we did an ARAM (all random all mid) game where I got paired up with him, and I realized he's fun.
Keep in mind that I HATE tanking/playing tanks.

1) Cho is an off-tank. Not really the best initiator, I guess you should let other people initiate, and then walk in and wreck shit. Though I carry ghost with cho. So I can just ghost and run in there.

2) Just have good placement on it. Don't use it directly on a champ where they're standing, if they see you pounding your feet, they will most likely step back, so use rupture behind them or in between. Predict your foes movements, that's all there is to it. And especially if they're running away, you're gonna want to use rupture towards where they're running to. It's all about strategy.

3) I get an early catalyst. I haven't really been having mana troubles. But if I do, I'll ask someone if they can cover mid for me (I almost always mid as cho, he is a great mid) so I can recall. his passive already regens mana. And I'm sure everyone uses mana regen runes.

4) I always get a GA. It's the perfect item for cho.

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#3
OFFLINE   KevinMaster

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somehow I felt that ap cho > tank cho
you could go ap if your team already have another tank, if no, then try to tank.
there's only 1 skill that suggest cho to be a tank, Feast. A massive HP boost.
All of his skills scales with AP, which makes the AP build reasonable.

late games
Ap CHO = a threat to enemies, but a little squishier
Tank CHO = the only threat would be Feast, but could survive teambattles
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#4
OFFLINE   TwilightPrince

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Quote

somehow I felt that ap cho > tank cho
you could go ap if your team already have another tank, if no, then try to tank.
there's only 1 skill that suggest cho to be a tank, Feast. A massive HP boost.
All of his skills scales with AP, which makes the AP build reasonable.

late games
Ap CHO = a threat to enemies, but a little squishier
Tank CHO = the only threat would be Feast, but could survive teambattles


Ugh me too.
I hate when I pick Cho, and people suddenly assume that I'm tanking, so they don't pick tanks, when I really just want to go AP.
But oh well. A hybrid AP/tank cho would be nice. But of course we're gonna need another tank on our team.

Another note, RoA, always.

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#5
OFFLINE   Satariel

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Quote

there's only 1 skill that suggest cho to be a tank, Feast. A massive HP boost.
All of his skills scales with AP, which makes the AP build reasonable.


You can technically say the same for both statements about Morde. The only "tankish" thing he has is Creeping Death, yet everyone knows what Morde can do as a tank. Also, I've been messing around with AP Morde since he got his AP ratios altered....he's some serious damage. Even moreso than people estimate. I think Cho is an interesting tank because of his AoE (well...cone.) silence and a knock up slow. It adds a great deal of control to fights, and no doubt can turn around an outcome to a fight.

A while back, Heat and Serve introduced his Morde build that ran Sunfire Capes as a method of generating additional "Threat". His idea was that if people saw the cape and constant damage, they would feel Morde was a threat that had to be removed, and thus attack him.

Perhaps a combo of SFC and skills would make me public enemy #1? :)

#6
OFFLINE   peyo

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luck? it does never play a major role. it was probably either your bad or their skills. Luck is only for crits and dodge, nothing more.

#7
OFFLINE   Scooterpie

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luck? it does never play a major role. it was probably either your bad or their skills. Luck is only for crits and dodge, nothing more.


Could be luck with whom you were teamed up with. They got a communicative team while you're being stuck with flaming asshats. I'd say that's luck.

#8
OFFLINE   Algazar

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Quote


late games
Ap CHO = a threat to enemies, but a little squishier
Tank CHO = the only threat would be Feast, but could survive teambattles


Pretty much this,if you tank,ur damage will be much lower than other tanks,if u go AP,u will be quite squishy and with 5x feast,u will eat all their skillshots,nukes,spells,aoe...because of size and will go down really fast.

#9
OFFLINE   Feligues

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I do not think GA is viable.
Of course, you have a second life, but buying a better defensive item will maks you live longer than a second life with 700hp once in 5 minutes.

#10
OFFLINE   DarkVejigante

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Rupture is better used where they can't see you :P It's funny to hide in bush, hear a cute little stomp, and then feel like you are going up, up, and down.

Now, you want a hybrid to make Cho the most effective in team fights. Rylai's will make your normal attacks (thanks to Vorpal Spikes) capable of Slowing the enemy, your Rupture is great for initiation/disrupting, and Feral Scream REALLY fucks up Mages/Skill-dependent champs. Remember Feral scream silences ENEMIES (notice the S?) in front of him, so this is quite sexy for people who like running in bulks. At rank 5, it lasts 3 seconds (yum); Rylai's would slow them in this case, so using Rupture right after Feral would provide you some dangerous CC. I've done this and it gives plenty of time to my ally Casters to nuke the shit out of my enemies.

On Feast, just get used to the damage it deals. Its cooldown is not that long in comparison to other ults, so this could make it even more viable. There are a few ways to use Feast -

-Psychological Factor: If your enemies get below certain HP level, Feast will secure you a kill, and once enemies get to know this, they will avoid you like the plague. While it sounds like a bad thing, if your carry always hangs around with you... your coward enemies should say good bye to turrets. This combined with Cho's immense size and durability has give me many easy turrets.

-Teamwork Factor: When you know your Caster is around with Nukes ready, use Feast even if the enemy has full HP. Allow your Caster to pop out of the blue and score a quick kill. I can't count how many people got cocky because I was "alone" and suddenly ally Veigar/Annie/Ryze pops in for a swift, easy kill.

-Defense Factor: Building AP Cho will make you slightly squishier than Tank Cho Gath. HOWEVER, since Feast scales with AP, you will still be fearsome (even more from the offensive point of view), thus, making enemies think it twice before attacking you, so even with squishiness, you are still "protected". It is said a good offense (sometimes) is the best defense.

Guardian Angel is perhaps the most annoying item on Cho Gath (for the enemy team, that is). Nothing more frustrating than bringing that +4k giant roach and watching it come back from death, running back to base. You thought you had him...

Anyways, that's just my opinion. He is a great tank and can work insanely well as an off-tank/AP monster. You should play him more often and analyze different options in order to find out what works best for you.
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#11
OFFLINE   MagnaKay

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Even on Tank cho, grab a Rylai. Now it works with his spikes, it is ANNOYING AS HELL in teamfights. Also, it works on all your spells.
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#12
OFFLINE   Xendarm

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Quote

1) How do I effectively create threat?
Many people stay away from me because of Feast. When I begin an initiate, they back away from me, because DO NOT WANT. Also, my massive size deters attackers.

2) Tips for using Rupture?
I'm very sure that Rupture is how Cho can make DPS stick to him during a teamfight. The slow will force people to attack me because they can't reach the other DPS or Support.

3) Mana for the Rape Train?
Should I make getting defensive mana items my priority? What is your guys' opinion on Frozen Heart?

4) GA Worth it?
My last question is about GA. I heard it saves stacks for Cho, but post nerf, should I even bother?

Thanks for your time. :P


I play Cho'gath regularly and I can tell you that I'm regularly told that "Cho'gath is unbalanced" or that he's "overpowered". Cho'gath is an insanely good tank if you remember the fact that he IS a tank.

1) Threat is built on the sheer fact that you have massive HP to go along with your massive size. Most people have blinders and will go for the first thing they see, even if that thing is a 5,000 HP beast that can output upwards of 1300 damage in 2 seconds with massive resistance. If they want to go around you use rupture.

2) Rupture is a great initiating move, slowing one or more of them as the team fight starts is huge, especially if they're DPS with no built MR, cause then your Rupture will be a fair chunk of damage.

3) Mana is normally a negligible stat for me when I play Cho. I do build the Frozen Heart, but that's for it's 99 Armor and the CDR. Most team fights don't last long enough to worry about mana. My item priority for Cho'gath goes in this order: Warmog's, Boots, Force of Nature, Frozen Heart, then from there if the game continues I'll consider a second Warmog's if my resistance are sufficient or build further resistances based upon the game. Randuin's is a good substitute for Frozen Heart if you like it more.

4) In my experience GA is not worth it on Cho. I'd rather build more HP via Warmog's and keep my MR/Armor up via Force of Nature and Frozen Heart than worry about dying. Stacks aren't a huge deal, you can recover then within 6 minutes or less.

Finally, Cho'gath does not need AP items to do damage. Although he gets a great ratio of AP on Rupture and Scream, the sheer fact they do 305 and 300 respectively at rank 5 combined with the 800 True Damage on Bite means big damage burst from him with slow and silence to boot. I've rarely built AP items on Cho'gath and managed to top damage dealt on the team.

One final note about playing Cho'gath. If you have to lane with someone make sure it's someone that doesn't benefit from last hits like Sion or Veigar, it will nerf your regen. If you have the option of going in a 2v1 lane due so someone on your team jungling, take it. You'll last longer than most and will be able to build your tank quicker.

#13
OFFLINE   MastaDJ

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Quote

Quote

1) How do I effectively create threat?
Many people stay away from me because of Feast. When I begin an initiate, they back away from me, because DO NOT WANT. Also, my massive size deters attackers.

2) Tips for using Rupture?
I'm very sure that Rupture is how Cho can make DPS stick to him during a teamfight. The slow will force people to attack me because they can't reach the other DPS or Support.

3) Mana for the Rape Train?
Should I make getting defensive mana items my priority? What is your guys' opinion on Frozen Heart?

4) GA Worth it?
My last question is about GA. I heard it saves stacks for Cho, but post nerf, should I even bother?

Thanks for your time. :P


I play Cho'gath regularly and I can tell you that I'm regularly told that "Cho'gath is unbalanced" or that he's "overpowered". Cho'gath is an insanely good tank if you remember the fact that he IS a tank.

1) Threat is built on the sheer fact that you have massive HP to go along with your massive size. Most people have blinders and will go for the first thing they see, even if that thing is a 5,000 HP beast that can output upwards of 1300 damage in 2 seconds with massive resistance. If they want to go around you use rupture.

2) Rupture is a great initiating move, slowing one or more of them as the team fight starts is huge, especially if they're DPS with no built MR, cause then your Rupture will be a fair chunk of damage.

3) Mana is normally a negligible stat for me when I play Cho. I do build the Frozen Heart, but that's for it's 99 Armor and the CDR. Most team fights don't last long enough to worry about mana. My item priority for Cho'gath goes in this order: Warmog's, Boots, Force of Nature, Frozen Heart, then from there if the game continues I'll consider a second Warmog's if my resistance are sufficient or build further resistances based upon the game. Randuin's is a good substitute for Frozen Heart if you like it more.

4) In my experience GA is not worth it on Cho. I'd rather build more HP via Warmog's and keep my MR/Armor up via Force of Nature and Frozen Heart than worry about dying. Stacks aren't a huge deal, you can recover then within 6 minutes or less.

Finally, Cho'gath does not need AP items to do damage. Although he gets a great ratio of AP on Rupture and Scream, the sheer fact they do 305 and 300 respectively at rank 5 combined with the 800 True Damage on Bite means big damage burst from him with slow and silence to boot. I've rarely built AP items on Cho'gath and managed to top damage dealt on the team.


Finally, someone who sees why tank cho has worked and still works.
I also want to add that mage cho is even more dependent on rupture that tank cho. Without rupture, you have to get in close for the rest of your moves to be useful, and I can assure you that cho will get focused if he does that. Mage cho won't be able to hold out for more than a couple of seconds with the entire team focusing on you. Tank cho can take about 7-10 seconds of full punishment before going down.

Rylai's is good, but the slow proc'd by vorpals is only the 15% aoe slow, so its not very effective for keeping targets in one place. I prefer a well placed rupture any day.

#14
OFFLINE   Kandarew

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I love playing Cho'gath. He teleports to a ward and OM NOM NOM's the Twitch who's running away after a gank. Anyways...here's my take on your points.

Quote

1) Many people stay away from me because of Feast. When I begin an initiate, they back away from me, because DO NOT WANT. Also, my massive size deters attackers.

This is mostly because of size. Sure feast does 800+ in pure damage but unless if it's against a squishy, it's not that effective. Then you'd think that because it ignores resists, It would be good against tanks. But 800 off of a 5k HP tank isn't doing that much. I usually save feast for after the fight when we're chasing/fleeing.

2) Tips for using Rupture?
I'm very sure that Rupture is how Cho can make DPS stick to him during a teamfight. The slow will force people to attack me because they can't reach the other DPS or Support.

I usually harass with rupture because I get cooldown reduction. It's range is quite high so I use it to "poke" before team fights. The 1:1 AP scaling means that late game, it does around...600+ AoE damage.

3) Mana for the Rape Train?
Should I make getting defensive mana items my priority? What is your guys' opinion on Frozen Heart?

Frozen Heart....hmmm. Usually I have no mana problems with Cho'gath. With RoA I usually have enough mana to last in team fights.

4) GA Worth it?
If you're going to have to use GA's effect on Cho'gath, it means either you or your team is failing. Cho'gath RARELY dies. Besides, 750 HP on Cho'gath is practically nothing. 3 stacks isn't too hard to regain. Just go to blue buff and combo it. Feast on big golem for cooldown reduction and one stack. Run over to wraiths or something, get another stack. Run over to two golems, get another stack.


#15
OFFLINE   Satariel

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Thanks for all the input guys. I read the replies and banged out some games with Cho. I SS'ed the results in my match history below. Someone said earlier that luck doesn't play a major role in LoL. Luck does. As you can see, There's an obvious learning curve going on with Cho. The last two defeats were so frustrating. The last one we lost because our Teemo and Trundle decided to go running off into the forest. The enemy placed wards because they were intelligent and punished them for it.

The second to last loss was from lack of wards on our part, and a premade on theirs. I was duo Q'ing with a friend, and we got 3 solo queues with us and the other team was 5 man premade. :

Feelsbadman. Also, this was from last night around 3AM Eastern.

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