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Jax - the building process, Runes, Masteries, and Gameplay questions


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#1
OFFLINE   Mormon Jesus

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The following post might get long and boring to those not really into the depths of gameplay. If you are one of those, I strongly suggest you to click the exit link and spend your time doing something that suits you. With that out of my system, I proceed:

Hello there! Mormon Jesus (aka Wendy) here! I'm an average player with a certain obsession for tanks, supports, and burst Champions (not Heroes... those things don't exist here). My goal is to learn as many roles as possible (and earn about 500-600 wins) before I enter the realm of Ranked Gaming. I'm not a tryhard, so you won't see me raging over a feeder (I do believe in the Report button, though), nor being a bitch cause people are "building it wrong". While I do believe in teamwork and am extremely cooperative, sometimes I get that "iwannagetsomekillz" fever and play Jax. So far I've done well but still experimenting with him.

Here is my set up so far with Runes:
x9 Attack Speed Marks
x9 Dodge Seals
x9 Flat Magic Resistance Glyphs
x3 Flat Ability Power Quintessences

The why...
Marks: I am a bit unsure. Been thinking bout Magic Pen lately, since most of Jax's initial damage is Magic, but I feel AS helps me farm early game (when I rush Rageblade). Tried Armor Pen and didn't like them. Other than that, I don't view any other option as viable for him.

Seals: I won't change them. Spent a lot of IPs on these, and they help me proc Counter Strike often. IF I ever feel like changing them, Flat Armor would be the only replacement.

Glyphs: When playing Jax I feel burst casters are the only threat in the battlefield, since I can eat most melee Champions quickly. Personally I don't believe in the MR/level since they come to be truly effective past lv10, and by then I feel them unnecessary. Not sure anything else would fit Jax here. I have a full Tier 3 set of Flat CDr Glyphs, but don't view Jax as a caster, if you want to know.

Quints: Used to be flat HP, but for some reason I prefer flat AP now. With Jax's Passive and the Masteries+Starting Item I choose, the Flat HP Quints are FAR inferior.

Masteries: 0/21/9 - now, before you start calling me "omgwendytisnoobbitch" let me explain why. I play VERY passive early game, taking Empower at Level 1 focusing on last hitting, restraining myself from harassing the enemy (unless they set up a free kill), and just keeping the lane as close to mid as possble. I begin with an Amplifying Tome for the AP and HP boost.

-On the Mastery Side: I pick full Resistance and Hardiness for extra bulkiness early game. Its not a lot, but helps early game when everyone's damage output is nothing scary (for most champs, that is). From there I take full 4 points in Evasion and obviously grabbing Nimbleness. From there I proceed to spend a point in Strength of Spirit to open the path to Veteran Scars, and there I spend 4 points for extra Health. Now, I do get confused on whether picking that point on Strength of Spirit or going for Harden Skin, since I heard Mana Regen got nerfed, but if you ask me, blocking 1 Damage doesn't seem to compensate for Health Regen... I guess I would need the Math on those.

Whatever the case is, I pick full 3 points on Ardor. While I am a bit confused on the mechanics of this Mastery (keep your blond jokes to yourself, please), so far seems viable to me. Finishing, of course, it's Tenacity. Now, I know a lot of people think its a waste of space, but I don't feel it that way. Maybe it's me, but would like to have a better understanding of its mechanics ON Jax; NOT in general.

On the Utility Tree I grab Haste and Perseverance, moving down to Awareness (full) and finishing with a point on Meditation. Again here I find myself at loss when deciding between Meditation or Expanded Mind. Suggestions?

-Building Jax:
I start with an Amplifying Tome and a Potion, playing very conservative and only spending Mana for Empower (last hitting). If things go well, I try to stay in lane as far as I am allowed to, only recalling to buy Ninja Tabis and Blasting Wand. If things get ugly, I recall and pick Boots of Speed and an Elixir (it depends on the enemies; could be Brilliance or Fortitude, but I never pick Agility). Once finished Rageblade I move immediately to Hextech Gunblade, starting by the Vampiric Scepter. This enables me to jungle well if things are passive plus adds survivability on 1v1 encounters.

OFF TOPIC: At this moment I hate Google Chrome for crashing on me. Thank you, bastard! Now I have to write it all over again :banane:

Back to topic. Sometimes, and this is not often, I pick a Zeal after Vampiric Scepter/Cutlass. This is done on rare occasions when I feel my team is behind on turret kills. Zeal helps with MS and AS, giving me some mobility and helping my turret killing prowess (give me 10 seconds with your turrets and I'll show you what I can do). When not picking Zeal I simply finish Gunblade. Most games are over by then (either I finish it and start triple killing, or surrender before finishing it).

On few games that haves lasted past Gunblade I tend to grab Banshee's Veil if there is CC and Burst flying around. Otherwise I just farm up a BF Sword or Needlessly Large Rod; it all depends on the enemy's defenses. The reason I go Hybrid its because people hate it; I force them to build around me, and not against me. If I go full AP they pick BV+Abyssal and literally kill my damage output. If I go full AD they pick Thornmail and shred me to pieces. Not that I am stupid enough to focus on one spectrum; I'd rather have decent damage on both ends.

Now, the big questions are:
-Marks; AS or M.Pen?
-Masteries; how are they working exactly for me, as in early game?
-Suggestions past Gunblade?

After Gunblade I find myself powerful enough to 1v2 and score double kills, or go in a teamfight a see a nice Triple Kill in chat, yet I feel at lost after I grab it. Oh, and yes, I love it's active. Great chasing tool.

In case you wonder, I grab Ghost + Ignite/Exhaust, depending on the mood. I do enjoy pushing turrets, for I think the psychology behind it gives my team a huge advantage, but I also like to be part of the teamfights.

I am open to suggestions, questions, and discussions. Keep it clean, though. <3
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#2
OFFLINE   malm1202

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why didnt you create this as a guide

#3
OFFLINE   malm1202

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oops nvm just read through ur kinda askin for advice, sorry

#4
OFFLINE   Mormon Jesus

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View Postmalm1202, on 21 February 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

why didnt you create this as a guide


Thanks for the "compliment". At the moment, I don't believe to be very skilled with Jax. Kinda touchy for the guides, and if I have questions myself, I wouldn't like to lead others through that same foggy path.

I am considering writing guides for Nasus, Rammus, and Soraka - but that would be later, when I finally get the time. <3
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#5
OFFLINE   Sm0t_p0ker

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I build him pretty much the same exact way, and I also go 0/21/9. I think MPen runes make more sense, but it's just preference and playstyle. I have AD marks that I wasted IP on, but they help with early game health.

starting with an amp tome is interesting though, I've never tried it. I start with a dorans shield.

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View PostThe Hound, on 19 August 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:


I would nuke Japan and New Mexico just to preserve the memory of the Beatles.



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#6
OFFLINE   Sareth

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View PostMormon Jesus, on 21 February 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

Now, the big questions are:
-Marks; AS or M.Pen?
-Masteries; how are they working exactly for me, as in early game?
-Suggestions past Gunblade?


Maybe I'm not some kind of uber pro owner with Jax, but I have played with him couple of times.

For runes, I take M.Pen beacuse it makes last hitting with W easier, and makes Q+W harass combo amazingly powerfull. I know, you said you are passvie early game, but sometimes with a little help of your teammate you can destroy their squishys with two such combos, and AS won't give you that. And like you said, most of your dmg output is magic.

As for masteries, i go 9/21/0. More AP, cdr and m.pen = more overall dmg. Defense masteries are self explanatory. Dodge mastery with runes is just great, more MS <3, more def stats what helps early game and more AP and AS.

If we talk about items, I love to have some CDR on him. Jumping like a frog every 3,6 sec is just wonderful. That's why after rageblade I often buy Nashor Tooth. With AS from it and rageblade you have almost capped AS. More ability power and CDR. You say you rush gunblade after rageblade so maybe you consider buing Nashor Tooth after gunblade.
Sorry for my bad english :P

#7
OFFLINE   Mormon Jesus

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View PostSareth, on 22 February 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

Maybe I'm not some kind of uber pro owner with Jax, but I have played with him couple of times.

For runes, I take M.Pen beacuse it makes last hitting with W easier, and makes Q+W harass combo amazingly powerfull. I know, you said you are passvie early game, but sometimes with a little help of your teammate you can destroy their squishys with two such combos, and AS won't give you that. And like you said, most of your dmg output is magic.

As for masteries, i go 9/21/0. More AP, cdr and m.pen = more overall dmg. Defense masteries are self explanatory. Dodge mastery with runes is just great, more MS <3, more def stats what helps early game and more AP and AS.

If we talk about items, I love to have some CDR on him. Jumping like a frog every 3,6 sec is just wonderful. That's why after rageblade I often buy Nashor Tooth. With AS from it and rageblade you have almost capped AS. More ability power and CDR. You say you rush gunblade after rageblade so maybe you consider buing Nashor Tooth after gunblade.


I haven't tried the 9/21/0 approach, but surely will. Maybe a bit of Magic Pen will do the trick. Don't you miss the EXP, though? Maybe a Zil can compensate for it... Might have to pre-made on that one.

Never thought of Nashor, but it would benefit crushing towers without having to be sold lately! I like it!
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#8
OFFLINE   L4r90

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same here
i go 9/21/0 for the 15% MaPen and start of with a Dorans Ring (ManaReg and 100+30 HP).
For Marks i too use AS over MaPen since i simply like the little boost through out the game more than early game harrasement power. only in terms of items we go different ways^^ Dodge Seals, AP/lvl Glyphs and depending on my Mood either Dodge or Movementspeed Quints.
my core contains Ninja Tabi, Wriggle's Lantern and a Hextech Revolver -> then order in wich i get these items depends on the matchup of course. i simply love the the combination lifesteal and spellvamp with the occasionly 500 MaDmg Procs and the free ward that let's me leap through jungle walls. from there i decide if i wanna finish my Gunblade ASAP or take a Banshee Veil, since i often encounter CC heavy teams and while not taking Merc Treads i find myself in need of some Defense.
usual items i have mid to endgame are
Ninja Tabi
Hextech Gunblade
Wriggle's Lantern
Banshee Veil
Atmas Impaler

plus depending on other teams, i might get these when i feel i need to or just doin' so great that i want to do more: Hexdrinker (MR and the shield are great at early game), Rageblade (when i really need the extra Dmg/HP), Frozen Mallet/ Rylais (for HP and the Slow on hit/ procs), Phantom Dancer (this is great against Kiteing Teams).
In terms of taking up AS Items-> thou i like the little boost from the Marks (and In-Game from the awesome Ult passive), i'm no real fan of them on Jax; In all of my games i came to the conclusion that i'd rather do more Burst Dmg (W,Q,E, Autoattack and Back off), then stay in the middle of everything while gettin bursted down myself while happy whacking^^ that's also the reson why i take a different approach on Rageblade and Phantom Dancer. for me those two have more utility by giving me HP/ Burst or simply for the Movementspeed and against turrets.
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#9
OFFLINE   phantommaggot

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an often overlooked item in games is Shurelya's Reverie
CDR and SPEED

with jax, after gunblade you should look at defense too. im a big fan of sunfire cape, or thornmail depending on who your up against, lots of burst magic get a hex drinker or a veil, or just get another gunblade, lich bane is pretty cool on jax if you have a chunk of AP, same with sheen.

thats the thing with jax, there is SOO much you can do after a gunblade LOL

<3 jax
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#10
OFFLINE   HNIC Jellyman

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I like going 21/9/0 avoiding any crit chance or damage.

Runes I like to use are ad/lvl marks
dodge seals
ap/lvl glyphs
and flat ap quints

if i'm jungling on SR then ASP marks work well

I use typical jax builds, starting with boots > ninja tabis, blasting wand > guinsoo's, vampiric sceptre, hextech revolver > gunblade, usually throw in a hexdrinker also for mages after those three items, or earlier if required.

#11
OFFLINE   Mormon Jesus

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View PostHNIC Jellyman, on 22 February 2011 - 04:49 AM, said:

I like going 21/9/0 avoiding any crit chance or damage.

Runes I like to use are ad/lvl marks
dodge seals
ap/lvl glyphs
and flat ap quints

if i'm jungling on SR then ASP marks work well

I use typical jax builds, starting with boots > ninja tabis, blasting wand > guinsoo's, vampiric sceptre, hextech revolver > gunblade, usually throw in a hexdrinker also for mages after those three items, or earlier if required.


Sounds quite offense oriented. Do you think 9 Points in the Defensive Tree would do the Trick? I mean, just saying... Is the power on the Offensive Tree enough to compensate?
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#12
OFFLINE   HNIC Jellyman

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View PostMormon Jesus, on 22 February 2011 - 05:15 AM, said:

Sounds quite offense oriented. Do you think 9 Points in the Defensive Tree would do the Trick? I mean, just saying... Is the power on the Offensive Tree enough to compensate?


All you really need is the nimbleness imo
I still end up very tanky with well over 3k hp thanks to the passive

And with hexdrinker you are able to get more damage and health while adding to your magic resist which is your biggest hindrance.

Sheen and Lichbane are great items too, but I usually get them after hexdrinker. I build my jax hybrid tho, so I do have ad items as well, it ends up being balanced but most of his damage is magic damage. I've seen jax's do quite well with magic pen, I just prefer the extra health/ad

#13
OFFLINE   IAmEmtee

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I don't play Jax very often, but when I do I take 0-21-9 masteries, grab Ignite + Cleanse (I simply love these spells on jax). Itemwise I still prefer Doran's Shield for the start then:
-ninja tabi
-vampiric scepter/pickaxe/blasting wand;
-guinsoo rageblade;
-hextech gunblade.
Then I pick some of the following:
-banshee;
-atma's impaler (works great with his passive IMO);
-something for AS (zeal, stinger, Sword of the Divine :) etc);
-Quicksilver Sash (Im in love with this item and tend to grab it when cleanse and banshee are not enough);
-any other defensive item.

If our team doesn't have a jungler - I leave my lanemate alone after I have tabi & vampiric scepter and go for some jungling and ganking
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#14
OFFLINE   JerMenKoO

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I think 21/9/0 is better for him, and he should go RageBlade+Hextech+Trinity. Nice core IMO.
Also I like to lane with support, especially with my friend who plays Soraka.

Edited by JerMenKoO, 23 February 2011 - 05:27 PM.

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#15
OFFLINE   rawpower405

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I wrote a guide with a BOATLOAD of theorycrafting for Jax (click the link in my signature). There's a ridiculous amount of math involved in that guide, but I'm going to try and summarize it here.

Hybrid is quite possibly the worst way to build Jax since you are building to any particular strength. And please stop with the bull about hybridizing his damage and forcing people to build to counter you. Do you think AD carries should all go AP to hybridize their damage? Or do you feel that Annie should be played DPS so she can nuke AND dps you to death? Of course not. So please stop trying to build Jax as a hybrid.

Rageblade:
Not a bad item, not a great item, but TERRIBLE synergy with Jax's ult.

Time to reach 10 stacks of Relentless Assault
Base= 7.81s
Rageblade= 7.39s
Malady= 6.3s
Berzerker Greaves= 6.97s

Rageblade is not good for his ult. DO NOT GET IT TO BOOST HIS ULT. The only positives are that Rageblade gives 93 AP when fully charged. The problem is in getting and staying fully charged. On average, Rageblade only offers 69 AP. The AD is negligble. You're spending your gold on an item that you get to boost his ult (which it doesn't), gives a small amount AD, and provides AP that requires a rev up. There are better alternatives.

Gunblade:
For the cost, there are better items. It doesn't provie as much HP as you'd think, and the damage it provides is small. The slow is unreliable and has a cooldown. There are better items.

Suggestions
Stop playing him as a Hybrid
Stop playing him as a DPS
Start playing him as an AP Burst Caster.

Rylais
Phenomenal item. Gives a HUGE amount of HP, lots of reliable AP (unlike rageblade), and a reliable slow.

Lichbane
Synergizes AMAZINGLY well with him as an AP burst caster. You wanted hybridized damage? Say hello to your physical nuke. And you get magic resist. And you get movespeed. And you get another 80 AP.

Abyssal
More AP, more magic resist, magic reduction. Phenomenal.

Rabadons
HUGE nukability with this item. Synergizes AMAZINGLY WELL with ANY ap item.

Putting it all together
Rylais/Lichbane/Rabadons
Rylais/Lichbane/Abyssal
Rylais/Rabadons/Abyssal

You will deal 1500+ damage in Burst (Jax has FOUR NUKES afterall). You will have TONS of HP and resistances.

For the math involved, look at my guide.





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