11 replies to this topic

[Meril]

Hi,
i prefer playing sololanes and would like to have a good pick for every lane. Atm i really like to play Teemo and Ahri. I just dont have enough experience which matchups are good/bad for these champions, so it would be great if someone could help me.

@Teemo:
I know that Teemo is more of a niche pick and i have to dominate my lane to be useful (so i will never firstpick him, just as counterpick). So i have to know which lanes i can win with Teemo with his kiting/blind-kit. My guess:

-i should win vs standart melee solo top lanes like e.g. garen, tryndamere etc.
-> are there any melees that are dangerous for me?, e.g. they have enough sustain or gap closers + damage to win the lane or just farm and be stronger lategame (probaly riven would beat teemo, would irelias sustain + gap closer strong enough?, or maybe fizz)
-which other common solo top champions beat teemo?, i would think of yorick
-probaly i shouldn't play Teemo vs AP-champions, because there burst it quite dangerous
-if they decide to play an AD-Solo top i probaly should be fine, maybe caitlyn could be an issue

-> i need some help vs which opponents i can pick teemo and which matchups i have to avoid
-> i'm thinking about a second solo top pick, if i dont play teemo, e.g. could i choose riven?, so that there are no matchups which are bad for teemo and riven

@Ahri:
I find her very fun to play, but hard to evaluate. From my experience her pre level 6 is "ok" but nothing special. With level 6 i had good success vs skillshot based champions like e.g. brand -> e.g. we are both at like 70% health and could kill each other with one combo. Then i have good chances to win that, because i can dodge up to 3 skillshots with my ulti and kill him. However im not sure if i can beat champions without skillshots like kassadin, annie, leblanc and sion. Also she can gank quite well. However she seem to transition from an early game ganker and nice burst in lane with her ulti into a more sustained caster. Probaly shes weaker than e.g. morgana lategame and wont be able to prevent her free farm.
-> i need some help vs which opponents i can pick ahri and which matchups i have to avoid
-> and i need a second mid pick, i thought about morgana, cause as far i know she counters the above mentioned champions quite well, however shes still perma banned in ranked, so that makes no sense.

[ReversedAura]

You're right that Teemo beats most standard solo top tanky-DPS. Teemo should be able to beat Irelia, since she generally can't do much pre-level 6. After that, she just sustain-farms and ignores everything short of a full on fight. I haven't seem Teemo be used as a counter pick for Irelia.

Not sure about Fizz or Riven. They have no sustain skills to speak of, so Teemo should be able to out last them. And in order for them to attack you, they have to use several of their dashes just to get in range. Teemo should be able to kite them and win out in the exchange. You have to play really careful though.

Teemo would have problems with Yorick and Nidalee, off the top of my head.

[OnnaJReverT]

cant really agree about teemo beating fizz, the argument is that he outsustains him, but where does teemo have sustain (cept vamp)?
also, fizz does have a really aggressive playstyle from lvl 3 on (all skills) since he can jump in (q), deal dmg with dot (w) and jump out save (e) teemo could maybe hit 1/2 hits + q if he´s alarmed, but well... fizz simply deals more dmg

also, yes, i hate fizz

[SoupSoupMahGaa]

Also, Riven is broken as hell, and literally will win any top lane in the right hands. She has great mobility, a shield, and absurd damage output. She's definitely a problem for Teemo.

Kassadin is an issue for casters always, he's an anti-caster. Champs like Annie and Sion shouldn't be a big problem for Ahri, because you are much more mobile, and your CC has a much longer range then theirs, so your stunlock and combo should beat them in most/all 1v1s.

[ReversedAura]

The thing with Teemo though is that he has range... Riven and Fizz have to use at least on of their skills just to get in range to use their other skills. If you're Teemo, you should be smart enough to kite back when they walk up to you. Riven and Fizz can't use their full damage combo against a smart Teemo.

[SoupSoupMahGaa]

ReversedAura, on 03 January 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

The thing with Teemo though is that he has range... Riven and Fizz have to use at least on of their skills just to get in range to use their other skills. If you're Teemo, you should be smart enough to kite back when they walk up to you. Riven and Fizz can't use their full damage combo against a smart Teemo.

Riven's dash is her shield, so that actually just uses it to its full potential. His blind is near useless against her as she has CC (to wait out the blind) and large damage from her Q and W. She is also extremely mobile, and can E in, hit teemo with her Q, her stun, and then an auto attack and leave before he does very much damage.

[OnnaJReverT]

ReversedAura, on 03 January 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

The thing with Teemo though is that he has range... Riven and Fizz have to use at least on of their skills just to get in range to use their other skills. If you're Teemo, you should be smart enough to kite back when they walk up to you. Riven and Fizz can't use their full damage combo against a smart Teemo.

well yes, fizz can
when teemo comz into aa-range (which equals q if i´m not wrong) fizz is in range for q > closes the gap
then he autohits, dealing a LOT of dmg (fuck that dot) and then simply going out with e (cant even be hurt trolololol)
he takes maybe one autohit from teemo and that´s it

also, riven has huge problems vs range since her dashes are there and low cd, but they are very small
get boots first and back off when u see a dash, problem done, she´s fucked (or needs flash)

[Coal]

Riven poops on Teemo. I actually played both matchups from both sides multiple times.

[ReversedAura]

Hmmm... I see this is turning into another internet argument. I'll just stick to what I've seen from high elo streams and personal experience.

[Rapid99]

ReversedAura, on 03 January 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Hmmm... I see this is turning into another internet argument. I'll just stick to what I've seen from high elo streams and personal experience.

Really? I don't see this descending into an argument or anything. From what I've read there are just a few players disagreeing with the notion that Teemo would beat a number of mentioned champions top-lane.

I for one can't argue against Teemo being outclassed top by Riven or Fizz. As much as players love to argue the viability of Teemo in a plethora of situations it doesn't change the fact that he really isn't all that amazing.

Seriously, I'm not going to say that Teemo can't be viable or doesn't have his uses but opinion on him is WAAAAYYY skewed in favour of the little furrry bugger just because he's so popular. People find him fun and work hard to justify playing him.

As far as the above matchups are concerned: Teemo might be able to poke at Riven for a while, auto attacks and running backwards with move quick is always somewhat effective against melee champs in lane. But once Riven gets some ranks in her skills / begins to itemise I'm not convinced Teemo would stand a chance. Riven isn't a pure auto-attacker so blind isn't going to be as crippling as it might be against other champions and all it will take is Teemo being caught in one of Riven's AOES for her to get some BIG hurt off.

Fizz? Well Fizz is just a bit of an ass against a lot of champions top lane. He doesn't wreck ranged like he does melee but since Teemo's damage in skirmishes is kind of crappy anyway (yes, even if you kite them into a mushroom) I can't shake the feeling that Fizz would just run in and do his thing like he does against every other champion and come out of the trade better. Even with a little lifesteal on Teemo Fizz's cooldowns aren't too long and you probably won't vamp all that much off creeps before he comes back for round 2. Plus, unless you go hard tanky he's probably going to have enough burst to downright flatten Teemo post-6.

Oh and before anyone suggests that move quick + mushrooms is going to stop Fizz closing the gap... Just no.

Edited by Rapid99, 03 January 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[ReversedAura]

Rapid99, on 03 January 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Really? I don't see this descending into an argument or anything. From what I've read there are just a few players disagreeing with the notion that Teemo would beat a number of mentioned champions top-lane.

I just didn't want to make this a back-and-forth between me and others.

And you do build Teemo super tanky if you choose to pick him at all. He fills the role of tanky-DPS as a counter pick to certain top laners, not as a full fledged AD carry.

[Rapid99]

ReversedAura, on 04 January 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

I just didn't want to make this a back-and-forth between me and others.

And you do build Teemo super tanky if you choose to pick him at all. He fills the role of tanky-DPS as a counter pick to certain top laners, not as a full fledged AD carry.

Ah, now here's what I'm getting at.

I've seen Teemo built tanky, but at the same time whenever I see it I always think to myself "Why don't we have a better tanky-dps in this lane?". Sure his blind and kiting can be annoying to some top laners, but on that point having a more useful top laner who knows how to lane against the enemy would just be better.

I guess if you want to play Teemo and you're confident in your matchup it's fine to do so. I just struggle to shake the feeling that having a more useful champion who knows how to lane would be better.

It's like when I want to play my favorite champion (Katarina), I always struggle to justify my own choice when I know that even with a small amount of CC on the enemy team good players will adapt if I'm doing well and just counter Death Lotus every time.