37 replies to this topic

[myrec]

I have a quest about new passive ? 10 % dmg reduction it is good or bad?
Can someone do a math else than me ?
I counted that with 50 Armor it's worth 15 armor but at 300 it's about 45 armor in one passive
and it's unpenetrable.
discuss

[Drunkard]

It's only on auto attacks isn't it? I'd say it'd be worth it if you're against heavy auto-attack carries for the first portion of a game--it likely won't make a dent later, though.

[P4TCHburguer]

They need to make it so all phys damage is reduced.

[_wyrd_]

That would be a bit ridiculous, it'd be too much of a counter to pure damage champs like Talon, Riven and Caitlyn. If you got a Leviathan with 20 stacks, all the damage reduction masteries, a ton of armor and Ninja Tabi in that form, you'd be ignoring them like they were minions.

[Drunkard]

 _wyrd_, on 17 January 2012 - 02:26 AM, said:

That would be a bit ridiculous, it'd be too much of a counter to pure damage champs like Talon, Riven and Caitlyn. If you got a Leviathan with 20 stacks, all the damage reduction masteries, a ton of armor and Ninja Tabi in that form, you'd be ignoring them like they were minions.

Hell, imagine throwing one on Gragas. Throw a Leviathan in for good measure. Giggle at everything.

[Vuther]

It's a marked improvement over an 88% chance to do nothing in my books.

[Toastbrot]

Ofc it´s worth it.
I would even consider them after mercs if they got something like tryn, trist and Trundle.
(And my item build leaves enough space open)

[Turbotroll]

Actually it's almost the same, isn't it? 12% dodge would be 12% DR vs physical attacks since those are attacks you aren't taking...It's just that it wouldn't always work out to be 12% cuz dodge is random. I feel like they're about on par with Merc treads as far as viability. In a game with 3 AD heroes, I would definitely buy these. Admittedly, I have not tested them in-game yet. But they look nice

Edited by Turbotroll, 17 January 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Drunkard]

It's actually far better, dodge was very, VERY RNG-y meaning you could have a Trynd in your face and not dodge a single hit while he's wrecking you, but dodge a random Karthus auto attack that's happening. Sucks.

This is far more consistent. It's still not top-pick, but it's good against physical carries like Trundle, Trist, Tryn, Gangplank.

[Xeslaro]

If im not mistaken they are just about as viable as the old tabi (disregarding any changes in +armor that i havent cared to notice)

12% dodge chance effectively gives an extra 12% health. 100 attacks will hit 88 times. effectively cutting down damage made by 12%

10% dmg reduction leaves 100 attacks hitting 100 times but at 9/10th effectiveness. pretty much removing 10 hits worth of damage from 100 hits.



Long story short, either you can see the effectiveness as still being 10% dodge OR i am missing by a mile and my argument is way invalid

[Vuther]

 Xeslaro, on 17 January 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

If im not mistaken they are just about as viable as the old tabi (disregarding any changes in +armor that i havent cared to notice)

12% dodge chance effectively gives an extra 12% health. 100 attacks will hit 88 times. effectively cutting down damage made by 12%

10% dmg reduction leaves 100 attacks hitting 100 times but at 9/10th effectiveness. pretty much removing 10 hits worth of damage from 100 hits.



Long story short, either you can see the effectiveness as still being 10% dodge OR i am missing by a mile and my argument is way invalid

Just most people see the average effectiveness as being less than the original Ninja Tabi since it provided 12% migitation... but only theoretically.

[SoupSoupMahGaa]

While mathematically they are slightly less effective, it is really the consistency that makes it a buff. Sure, you could get lucky with old tabi and dodge three or four auto attacks in a row from an enemy AD carry to get a clutch kill or escape, but that was entirely luck. Now, you have a guaranteed 10% reduction that has nothing to do with RNG's. I can say from testing them in the PBE that I really liked them, and that they were overall definitely better than the old tabi.

[_wyrd_]

 Drunkard, on 17 January 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

...meaning you could have a Trynd in your face and not dodge a single hit while he's wrecking you, but dodge a random Karthus auto attack that's happening...

This. 10% Reduction is a buff over 12% Dodge, at least the reduction will consistently mean you take 10% less damage, 12% dodge mean you could take 60 points less damage from the said Karthus or 400 less from the Tryn, there was no consistency.

[Coal]

But you lost the chance to completely block out these:

- Corki true damage (shouldn't be negated by new boots)
- Twitch passive poison
- Teemo posion
- Vayne true damage proc
(Edit to be clear: Ofcourse I was talking about proccing Vayne's true damage with an autoattack. True damage > everything, but if the autoattack doesn't hit the true damage isn't procced. Pretty easy )
EDIT:
- Irelia Hiten style
- Sejuani passive
- Frozen Mallet/Phage proc
- Red buff
- Black cleaver shred
- Malady shred.
- Xin Zhao's three talon strike (is the third hit dodgeable? is it dodgeable at all?)
---

And I'm not sure how it works now for on hit characters/items, does it block 10% of Wits End/MBR/Malady damage proc etc?

It's a buff in consistent damage block yes, but they don't counter shit like Vayne passive now.

Edited by Coal, 19 January 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Xeslaro]

good point coal, didnt think of that. same with irelias hiten style attacks (true damage)

i dont think it reduces damage from stuff like wits end but even if it did true damage, and as you said teemo and such, would not be reduced

I dont think they wanted to directly nerf it since not many were using ninja tabi. Maybe they just didnt think of what you said?