37 replies to this topic

[Coal]

Just edited it in along with some other stuff. Thing is, people didn't realise how hard it countered champs as Vayne and Irelia, even though it was purely RNG based. New boots aren't bad, but I wouldn't call it an overal buff, they lost some life saving power actually.

[Tolang]

Coal, on 18 January 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

- Xin Zhao's three talon strike (is the third hit dodgeable? is it dodgeable at all?)
---

If i remember correct, the hits are dodgeable, but not the 3rd proc knock up.

At least that's how blind works, i got blinded by a Teemo, i missed the AA but still knocked him up.

Edited by Tolang, 18 January 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[Drunkard]

Nothing on XZ's Three Talon Strike was dodgeable, it falls under the "On Next Hit" category. All three strikes. IIRC, the actual true damage proc on Vayne wasn't dodgeable either--even if it was, Tumble's attack isn't.

But yeah on everything else. That said, it's an indirect buff to them in favor of consistency--I like it.

[Storm2344]

Drunkard, on 18 January 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Nothing on XZ's Three Talon Strike was dodgeable, it falls under the "On Next Hit" category. All three strikes. IIRC, the actual true damage proc on Vayne wasn't dodgeable either--even if it was, Tumble's attack isn't.

But yeah on everything else. That said, it's an indirect buff to them in favor of consistency--I like it.

Vayne true damage was dodgable but it was a bug and they fixed it I belive.

Edited by Storm2344, 19 January 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[Perrycox42]

I don't think his point on Vayne was so much that you could dodge the true damage itself, but if you dodged a attack, it wouldn't apply a stack for Silver Bolts. But, seeing as Tumble and Condemn couldn't be dodged, I don't know how often you wouldn't be able to land the 3rd hit.

[Meril]

Besides that obvious nerf vs some champions, I don't get why people see RNG as disadvantage. It may be a bad mechanic, because it makes the game more luck depended, however i see no reason why people shouldn't value RNG based damage (migation) just equal so normal damage (migation).

[Vuther]

Meril, on 19 January 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Besides that obvious nerf vs some champions, I don't get why people see RNG as disadvantage. It may be a bad mechanic, because it makes the game more luck depended, however i see no reason why people shouldn't value RNG based damage (migation) just equal so normal damage (migation).

Because it might not work. With Ninja Tabi's probability, there's an 88% chance it won't.

[Feanor]

Meril, on 19 January 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Besides that obvious nerf vs some champions, I don't get why people see RNG as disadvantage. It may be a bad mechanic, because it makes the game more luck depended, however i see no reason why people shouldn't value RNG based damage (migation) just equal so normal damage (migation).

Read the topic, Coal explained it.

[Coal]

Sorry for not being clear on that point. Ofcourse I was talking about proccing Vayne's true damage with an autoattack. True damage > everything, but if the autoattack doesn't hit the true damage isn't procced. Pretty easy

Also, if Riot doesn't want RNG, I don't get why they put 4% crit in masteries, which is a lot more gamebreaking. Got firstblooded while ago in ranked because I went aggressive on GP as Udyr because I had an level 1 item/damage advantage. Guy critted me twice and killed me. Now tháts retarded.

Edited by Coal, 19 January 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[SoupSoupMahGaa]

Coal, on 19 January 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also, if Riot doesn't want RNG, I don't get why they put 4% crit in masteries, which is a lot more gamebreaking. Got firstblooded while ago in ranked because I went aggressive on GP as Udyr because I had an level 1 item/damage advantage. Guy critted me twice and killed me. Now tháts retarded.

Real. It's cool if you build crit chance as an item, but base crit is just stupid.

[Vuther]

SoupSoupMahGaa, on 19 January 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Real. It's cool if you build crit chance as an item, but base crit is just stupid.

Hopefully, it won't take a long for them to solve that since crits have no where near the same circumstances of dodge...

[The Hound]

I know that there are different ways of looking at it but why is a small amount of luck factor a bad thing? There are games that are games that are based entirely on chance and mind games like poker or Yomi which are nonetheless played competitively. LoL by comparison is very consistent. If you're aware that somebody has a 4% crit chance you should also consider that every time you take an attack from them it might crit. Obviously it's a huge bummer when it happens twice in a row. I have a very limited understanding of math but I think that should work out to...
1 / (25²) = 0.0016 = 1.6 out of 1000 chance.

So yeah, it really sucks if it happens but it's not like it's some out of control problem that ruins the game.

Edited by The Hound, 20 January 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Vuther]

The Hound, on 20 January 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

I know that there are different ways of looking at it but why is a small amount of luck factor a bad thing? There are games that are games that are based entirely on chance and mind games like poker or Yomi which are nonetheless played competitively. LoL by comparison is very consistent. If you're aware that somebody has a 4% crit chance you should also consider that every time you take an attack from them it might crit. Obviously it's a huge bummer when it happens twice in a row. I have a very limited understanding of math but I think that should work out to...
1 / (25²) = 0.0016 = 1.6 out of 1000 chance.

So yeah, it really sucks if it happens but it's not like it's some out of control problem that ruins the game.

But it could be easily avoided, could it not? Crit could be reprogrammed as a % damage bonus for autoattacks, with critical damage as a multiplier on top of it, and it'd mathematically be the same. Tryndamere could be turned into getting extra fury equal to his critical strike chance % per hit (obviously, it wouldn't be a "chance" anymore).

Removing chance from card games is obviously pretty impossible, and arguably a pretty integral part of the experience, so everyone's OK with that. I'm totally OK with that, for sure. League of Legends, on the other hand, comes no where near the same circumstance.

[Trahas]

The Hound, on 20 January 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Math stuff

Crit seems like it would be a Binomial Distribution either crits or doesn't, has n trials, and are independent (though I think this last one may not be true, thought I read somewhere that they tried to make crit and dodge less RNG). So we make p the probability of it critting and q = (1-p) or the chance to not crit. p in your case was .04 and q would then be .96 so the chance to crit once would be ((.04)^1)*((.96)^0). The chance for it critting twice in a row would be ((.04)^2)*((.96)^0) = .0016. Isn't math fun.

However I don't think they are independent and that the chance is even lower.

Edited by Trahas, 20 January 2012 - 04:00 AM.

[Coal]

The Hound, on 20 January 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

I know that there are different ways of looking at it but why is a small amount of luck factor a bad thing? There are games that are games that are based entirely on chance and mind games like poker or Yomi which are nonetheless played competitively. LoL by comparison is very consistent. If you're aware that somebody has a 4% crit chance you should also consider that every time you take an attack from them it might crit. Obviously it's a huge bummer when it happens twice in a row. I have a very limited understanding of math but I think that should work out to...
1 / (25²) = 0.0016 = 1.6 out of 1000 chance.

So yeah, it really sucks if it happens but it's not like it's some out of control problem that ruins the game.

You don't play this game enough.