15 replies to this topic

[Osl112]

So, weird question.

Supports such as Taric, Sona, Soraka, Alistar etc. etc. are commonplace, yet other supports such as Nidalee and Galio (whom Riot tag as supports... somehow) are not. I was wondering what are your thoughts on these supports. As well as that, what other wacky supports you see.

Lets give an example. Nunu has great CC and a sweet buff which works wonders for the ranged AD carry. However, it wasn't incredibly commonplace (at least in pro games) until fairly recently. Then you have Nidalee... rarely played as a support yet she has sustain, a small buff as well as map vision with her traps. However, she isn't overly viable as such.

So, your opinions on these supports please. In all honesty, I'm a little bored of seeing Sona and co. each game.

[rebelblood]

Imo commonplace supports is any support with sustain.
Whacky supports is Galio or Nunu etc..
Nidalee isn't that weird as support..
Galio is a fine support if you manage to poke the enemy out of their lane so their support goes oom or can't keep up with the damage.
(Played Galio support twice, and it went pretty smooth both times)

[Feanor]

Galio runs oom too fast, no heal and he needs beef to use his ultimate. It does work but he has to gimp himself too hard tbh.
Nunu is a great support. The Attack Speed steroid is so fucking awesome I can't explain, he also draws all the aggro to him or an Exhaust in teamfights.
Nidalee, well I haven't seen any successful Nidalee supports.

[Drunkard]

The only way Galio works as a support is if they make Bulwark heal the person it's on, instead of Galio. Nunu's actually a solid support with people like Vayne or...well, anyone that benefits greatly from AS and MS. Another bright side to playing Support Nunu bot is super-easy Dragons.

Edited by Drunkard, 29 January 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Storm2344]

if people are starting to think that support=heal then its getting rly bad.

[Osl112]

Storm2344, on 29 January 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

if people are starting to think that support=heal then its getting rly bad.

Ofc, but I believe supports should be all CC either. The support should be a benefactor, sustaining the AD carry as well as protecting and setting things up for him/her.

[Storm2344]

Supports role early game is to get your carry as much farm as possible. but this is not only achieved by sustain or some cc. This also can be done by controling lane[controling bushes\heavy harras\beign a bigger threat to enemy] perfect example of this is imo Zilean[heavy harras forces enemy to go b and focus on farming instead of harrasing your carry + needs to be focused first past 6 due to his ult probably letting your carry deal more damage.]

I'm not saying that suddenly supports should have no heals or cc cause this wouldnt work at all. But there are also indirect ways to support too.

Edited by Storm2344, 29 January 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Cholgar]

To play as a support you only need to do 3 things:
- Farm 0 creeps.
- Buy the 70% of the game wards.
- Help your carry AD to get all lasthits he can.

So we have 2 considerations:
1.- Do your champion has any way to win the lane? This can be done only one way, wining the resource war. Can you outharrass the healing of a standard support? Can you make your AD outharrass it? Can you outheal him?

2.- Will you be able to be significant late game with very lil gold?

As you are geting 0 cs, you need other sources of gold to keep warding, so you will be forced to pick runes/masteries/items with gold/10. Does your champion sinergizes with them?

Will you be able to be safe and dont die?

Desirable things for a support:
- Non scaling skills: (CC, Steroids, enemy scaling spells (%hp, %ap,..), debuffs,...) -> As they are non scaling, CDR is high valuable.
- High Survivability (Mobility, HPef, CC)
- Efficient heal/damage
- Map control
- Sinergy with Gold/10 stuff and CDR stuff

So lets check each champion I personally play as a support and match this list:
- Soraka: Pasive AOE MR Buff, Eficient healing and harrass due to infinite mana, THE BEST SILENCE, Massive armor buff.
- Taric: AOE armor buff, AOE AD/AP Buff, Hard to kill, CC, shitty heal, Armor Debuff.
Ill continue latter when i get home


There are plenty of champions that can be played as a support and with no sustain:

- Gangplank: Heavy harrass, AOE steroid, global ult, hard to kill.
- Shen: Moderate Harrass, CC, Global shield, Hard to kill.
- Nunu: Negible Harrass, Targeted Steroid, Targeted Debuff, Extra secure buffs, AOE slow and Taunt OR Big Damage, hard to kill.
- Ashe: Really hard harrass, On demand Slow, Extra CV, Epic Stun
- Blitzcrank: CC bot, HArd to kill
-

[Feanor]

You just answered nothing, just summarizing what everybody said without giving any clear answers to anything. And you are also wrong.

Quote

To play as a support you only need to do 3 things:
- Farm 0 creeps.
- Buy the 70% of the game wards.
- Help your carry AD to get all lasthits he can.

Oh so if I play with Corki and I do all the above stuff I'm a good support amiright?!

You don't quite get the concept of support. Supports are their to either help their carry, by giving it all the gold and still being useful. Some supports don't care if they die, like Alistar/Nunu/Leona, if they die they have absorbed a fair amount of damage and thus drew attention from the carry.

You just list things without a real purpose, we are talking about unconventional supports here (not Ashe btw)

[Coal]

Also, buying 70% of the wards is overdoing it, jungler/mid/top barely buying wards is just plain dumb. Mostly because it forces supports to roam around too much to ward, while some supports are pretty level dependant (Alistar). Also, even supports can get underfarmed in terms of gold, even though they don't farm as much and have gold item, spending all the golds on wards makes them underpowered. Getting that Shurelias up ASAP is really important.

[Suzaku910]

Cholgar, on 31 January 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

To play as a support you only need to do 3 things:
- Farm 0 creeps.
- Buy the 70% of the game wards.
- Help your carry AD to get all lasthits he can.

Actually, all a support has to do is be useful to their team without having many items.

This means utility that either doesn't scale well or doesn't need to scale.

The 3 facets of supporting you listed are only possible because supports don't need items to function.

[Coal]

I think people underestimate the power of a properly itemised support. Shurelias is a game winner, aegis/randuins can do a lot for you team, reaching 40% CDR is gamewinner (especially on Sona/Alistar/Leona), starks/wota/abyssal can help your damage dealers a lot. New Locket seems extremely powerful.

Yes the support shouldn't steal the AD's farm, but every chance he has to farm up is a golden one. Not gimping your support by letting him buy all (and 70% is near to all, I would rather look at 40-50% max) the wards is another golden choice. People keep talking about pro games but never noticed how every player except for the AD tend to carry wards.

Completing all the items I listed on the top isn't a realistic thing, but strive to complete at least a few of these items. Top it of with wards and oracles, but don't overdo it. Midlaners/junglers whining about lack of wards while not warding themselves are idiots.

Edited by Coal, 01 February 2012 - 01:40 AM.

[Suzaku910]

Coal, on 01 February 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

I think people underestimate the power of a properly itemised support. Shurelias is a game winner, aegis/randuins can do a lot for you team, reaching 40% CDR is gamewinner (especially on Sona/Alistar/Leona), starks/wota/abyssal can help your damage dealers a lot. New Locket seems extremely powerful.

Yes the support shouldn't steal the AD's farm, but every chance he has to farm up is a golden one. Not gimping your support by letting him buy all (and 70% is near to all, I would rather look at 40-50% max) the wards is another golden choice. People keep talking about pro games but never noticed how every player except for the AD tend to carry wards.

Completing all the items I listed on the top isn't a realistic thing, but strive to complete at least a few of these items. Top it of with wards and oracles, but don't overdo it. Midlaners/junglers whining about lack of wards while not warding themselves are idiots.

Yeah, support are really good with items, but when you have to choose between the mage, AD carry, tanky DPS, and jungler getting farm or the support getting farm, the support is usually the one who can still do their role sufficiently without farm.

[Coal]

You just said what I said in different words. I never denied your points, only said that this mindset where you can starve your support of items is a flawed one.

[Cholgar]

My bad trying to explain things here. I see how its pointless.