Anti-fun and the burden of knowledge are two idiotic terms of Riot which made the game so incredibly shallow for me, since I already played it for a very long time. I mean not every champion has to be as complex as late game Invoker with several active items, yet I don't see the issue to demand from players to know how to use/counterplay certain abilities. You simply have to know that some champions are stronger in certain situations, able to gank you despite wards etc.
Consider how amazing the Smoke of Deceit would be in League of Legends. It would force people to just stop being entirely secure from ganks after putting up 2 wards and it'd actually make people put down wards more creatively. Riot often stated that they didn't want the game too passively, but in a lot of games (especially on tournament level) the first kills only happen after team fights for Dragon begin. There are several reasons for that. It's easier to play save in LoL due to the combination of lower lane access, which are easier to ward due to that, summoner spells making mispositioning less punishing and the LoL map being a lot smaller in comparison to DotA. Now if you'd add a consumable item that enables getting unseen through wards then it'd encourage aggressive gameplay far more, since your chances of success increase due to being a lot less predictable. That's just my opinion and only an example of what could help making the game more exciting. I'm well aware that a lot of players would feel terrible of being dependent on even more map awareness and wards being less reliable, but honestly that'd give teams a lot more options throughout the entire game.
The prime examples in this thread so far for anti-fun champions were Bloodseeker and Eve. While I agree that Eve was during her primetime as a jungler too strong in comparison to other champions, I don't think the last nerf was really needed. At that point it was already a gamble to pick her and Riot simply took her out due to not being the standard type of champion that would do what all the other champs did. If players just played intelligently when she was missing then she had a really hard time and was quite useless later on. If you start playing DotA in comparison to LoL the first thing you have to learn is to live with being denied in some situations (solo vs duo/tri lane). Greed will be punished far more in DotA in comparison to LoL. You lose gold and creeps (even more gold + xp) and the enemies gets a huge advantage and turrets deal a lot less damage than they do in LoL. So if you managed to feed hard early then tower hugging won't help you later on either. It was similar with Eve, just let go of some creeps, if you don't know where she is and you'll be fine, but once you start feeding she'll start snowballing pretty hard, including crazy dives. But I feel that not being able to give up some creeps is an issue a lot of LoL players have. E.g. I've recenty seen Dyrus dying simply because he couldn't wait another 15s for the creepwave to reach his turret range (he already had a disadvantage since he played badly before too). So instead of losing gold of 3-4 creeps he lost gold and the xp of around 15.
About Bloodseeker: he isn't even such a strong pubstumber. Actually I hardly see him in-game and he never really impresses me. His ultimate is mostly a problem if you're already mid hp and then the person really deserves what is going to happen. You'll be fine against him as long as you're not too low or BS is already fed, but other champions can do similar or worse when fed, so that isn't really an issue. I know sometimes people screw up / get outplayed and the person starts to snowball, but that's true for so many more heroes in DotA but also for LoL, that reasoning a whole balancing concept with a hero that is unless terribly fed only able to secure kills with ultimate against relatively suqishy targets is quite ridiculous.
Keep in mind that his kit isn't that strong, he has a silencing % ad steroid that also is a DoT (for allies and foes), a healing passive similar to Eve, a ms passive similar to WW and his ultimate that damages per distance walked. As you can see he has no crazy early game damage apart from his ult and he relies mostly on mistakes of enemies or successful roaming to get decently strong.
€: It also made me smile that I already knew who gave you the rep before checking.
Just read Zileas' list game design anti-patterns again.
This is a VERY common pattern amongst hardcore novice game designers. This pattern is when you do a complex mechanic that creates gameplay -- ONLY IF the victim understands what is going on. Rupture is a great example -- with Rupture in DOTA, you receive a DOT that triggers if you, the victim, choose to move. However, you have no way of knowing this is happening unless someone tells you or unless you read up on it online... So the initial response is extreme frustration. We believe that giving the victim counter gameplay is VERY fun -- but that we should not place a 'burden of knowledge' on them figuring out what that gameplay might be. That's why we like Dark Binding and Black Shield (both of which have bait and/or 'dodge' counter gameplay that is VERY obvious), but not Rupture, which is not obvious.
You can't implement a mechanic because the mechanic isn't 100% obvious on the first 2 uses? That's the most ridiculous explanation I've ever read. I mean you should expect from a player to inform himself about champions etc. and even if the player prefers learning while doing over reading it'd only take him 1 game or 1 question to his team to figure that out. So this is a pathetic excuse why you don't want to include less obvious mechanics. (btw you can read about spells of enemies while being in-game by either clicking on the enemy champion or going into the main menu Learn in DotA 2)
Edited by Gwynbradd, 01 March 2012 - 03:19 PM.