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Important mechanics on slow


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#1
OFFLINE   Heat n Serve

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There is a thread stickied on the guides and strategies section of the official LoL boards that incorrectly details how slows stack. WHY this misinformation is stickied is beyond me, but it is completely irresponsible since I have quoted that thread many times in explaining mechanics to other community members. I probably have several threads linking back to this misinformation. It will take a long time to fix the damage that has been done, but at least this is a step in the right direction. The following correct information has only recently been brought to my attention (buried in an obscure thread that I just happened across by accident):

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All slows stack with each other, but Rylai will not stack with itself.

Item slows do not stack with each other (they are a special slow type). This includes Phage, Trinity Force, Frozen Mallet, and Rylai's Crystal Scepter. Warden's Mail and Randuin's Omen do stack with other item slows (but again not with themselves from the same person).

Most slows will stack if two different people use them (for example double Exhaust) but item slows are an exception, they are limited to the biggest single item slow, from any player.

http://www.leagueofl...633#post1350633

<BEGIN RANT>
I suggest you make your voice heard on the LoL boards in favor of greater transparency in LoL game mechanics. I shouldn't have to test mechanics in practice games to figure out how they work, and neither should you. Yet here I stand with a great breath of mechanics knowledge for no other reason than the fact that I spent hours playing practice games to test stuff. The game wasn't created so people could go on and test stupid crap... it was made to be played and enjoyed. I should also be able to trust that the information communicated to me in STICKIED THREADS is accurate.
<END RANT>


EDIT 6/8/10:
horray, the stickied thread has finally been corrected. There is one less thing in there that might be wrong...


EDIT 9/6/10:
Fury and Civil Enemy did a great job testing things and posting their results in this thread. Here are some things worth noting:
  • Frozen mallet slows for 40% when used by melee champs and for 30% when used by ranged champs.
  • Slows stack multiplicatively, not additively.
  • Any slowing beyond 220 movespeed is only 50% effective because of diminishing returns coded into this mechanic.

If you want to see specific examples, take a look at this post:
http://forum.leaguec...=70746#pid70746
It should help paint a clearer picture for how slows stack.


EDIT 3/1/2011:
Changes to slow stacking were made in patch v1.0.0.112 but not noted in the release notes...

Quote

Hey all,

We forgot to include a change to slow stacking in the patch notes. I wanted to let you guys know the change;

Previous system:

Diminishing return for slows kicks in at a given number. This means that the first slow you put on someone might have been hitting diminishing returns and slowing for a little less than intended.

New system:

The first slow you put on a target always slows for the amount stated. Subsequent slows remain multiplicative, but slows beyond the highest % slow are cut in half (and then applied fully).

General implication: Single slows will be as strong or stronger than before. Multiple slows should be weaker than before.

[Edits to clarify the system]
The largest slow will always take the full effect. If a champion is affected by the slow from Blessing of the Lizard Elder and then walks on Mega-Adhesive from Singed, the Mega-Adhesive will now slow fully and the Lizard slow will be cut in half. If the champion uses Flash to escape Mega-Adhesive, the Lizard slow will now go back to full power.

Source: http://www.leagueofl...329#post6643329

special thanks to peyo for bringing this to my attention!



EDIT 4/1/2011:
Small change to slow mechanics from patch v1.0.0.114

Quote

Slow Stacking penalty increased to 65% from 50%

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#2
OFFLINE   bigozzie234

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Here here!

I've always thought it seemed like slows stacked, but I assumed I must have been mistaken.

Double exhaust sounds much sweeter now.
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#3
OFFLINE   Slaughterlouse

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Bah. I've been telling people the same thing. Thanks for putting this up, I'll do my best to spread the word.
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#4
OFFLINE   Priamos

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I knew this, but people doubted me!

Frozen Mallet works with Ashe's Frost Arrows, people!

Though I can't see why you'd ever want to buy a Frozen Mallet on Ashe...

#5
OFFLINE   Perrin18

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ffs i had told so many people that they didnt after reading that same damn thread! Well at least now i won't feel like rylais on gragas is a waste anymore.
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#6
OFFLINE   Leoneri

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I agree with you on the part about transparency in mechanics. That's what Blizzard is attempting to do with World of Warcraft once Cataclysm is released, by removing certain, confusing stats. I believe other games would do well to follow suit. Thanks for the information on slows, though, the thought of slows stacking was something that rarely crossed my mind. I also used to think double exhaust was a waste.

This question is a little off-topic, but do you know if exhaust was cast on someone who was under the effects of an exhaust that had not yet expired, would the countdown for the second exhaust start only after the first exhaust hit its full duration, or would it merely reset the timer, cutting off whatever duration the original had remaining?
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#7
OFFLINE   Trollebus

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Quote

I agree with you on the part about transparency in mechanics. That's what Blizzard is attempting to do with World of Warcraft once Cataclysm is released, by removing certain, confusing stats. I believe other games would do well to follow suit. Thanks for the information on slows, though, the thought of slows stacking was something that rarely crossed my mind. I also used to think double exhaust was a waste.

This question is a little off-topic, but do you know if exhaust was cast on someone who was under the effects of an exhaust that had not yet expired, would the countdown for the second exhaust start only after the first exhaust hit its full duration, or would it merely reset the timer, cutting off whatever duration the original had remaining?

|-----------|
This is the duration of an Exhaust in a timeline


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(it's a bit off but I'm sure you'll get it.)

For the duration of the overlap (green), it's double exhaust.

#8
OFFLINE   Heat n Serve

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Yeah, I think Trollebus has it right. The slow and the blind are separate debuffs, so the slow part can stack while the blind part just refreshes upon applying the second exhaust. In the case of something like ignite, for example, the DoT timer just refreshes upon applying the second ignite.
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#9
OFFLINE   XxPyroxX

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So now when you double exhaust it's a trade off between 8 second blind and 4 sec 80% slow? According to situations, extreme team coordination could maximize double exhaust's potential, game changing.

#10
OFFLINE   Heat n Serve

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Assuming the slow is additive... yes. However, I am not sure that it is. It may work like so (multiplicatively):

MS=370
apply 1st exhaust
MS=222
apply 2nd exhaust
MS=133.2

However, I am basing this off of something that I read in that inaccurate thread. Further reason why we need detailed mechanics from reliable sources...


EDIT: The above example doesn't count diminishing returns on slows... the correct calculation gives:

MS=370
apply 1st exhaust
MS=222
apply 2nd exhaust
MS=176.6
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#11
OFFLINE   Takethislife

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If now slows stack multiplicatively, wich they should imo, ( Theoretically it would mean you could slow for over 100% of your movement speed putting you into negative numbers) you could go for example 5x Exhausts, if now all of those would be used at the same moment on a champion with 325ms it would slow them down to a 25ms.

Tweaked abit with the numbers and if i understood this correctly you could with the right team set up get someone below 0.1 in movement speed

Please note this is just doodlings and some math, I'm actually quite interested in seeing if having an ms below 1 would mean you would just stand still or not
The numbers I used for this was a base movement speed of 325ms against Karthus (80% slow), Singed (75%), Nunu (60%) Cho' Gath (60%) & Rammus (60%)
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#12
OFFLINE   krysander

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now correct me if im interpreting this wrong....but that means that morgana's soul shackles slow does indeed stack rylai's....right?


edit: same with karthus wall and janna's zephyr yes?

#13
OFFLINE   Metalingus

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Time to get the $20 bucks from my friend hehehehe. Thanks Heat you just got me $20. +rep
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#14
OFFLINE   Perrin18

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Quote

If now slows stack multiplicatively, wich they should imo, ( Theoretically it would mean you could slow for over 100% of your movement speed putting you into negative numbers) you could go for example 5x Exhausts, if now all of those would be used at the same moment on a champion with 325ms it would slow them down to a 25ms.

Tweaked abit with the numbers and if i understood this correctly you could with the right team set up get someone below 0.1 in movement speed

Please note this is just doodlings and some math, I'm actually quite interested in seeing if having an ms below 1 would mean you would just stand still or not
The numbers I used for this was a base movement speed of 325ms against Karthus (80% slow), Singed (75%), Nunu (60%) Cho' Gath (60%) & Rammus (60%)

With most multiplicative stacking comes diminishing returns, and i would (although i have not gotten around to testing it(and really wish a LoL employee would just tell us)) imagine that slows would act that way.
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#15
OFFLINE   Takethislife

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Quote

With most multiplicative stacking comes diminishing returns, and i would (although i have not gotten around to testing it(and really wish a LoL employee would just tell us)) imagine that slows would act that way.


Yes I agree with you,but since we have no way of knowing without testing (atleast for the moment) I posted this somewhat random math hoping someone with the willpower and time could test this and hopefully prove my theory wrong. Though on a sidenote how would the diminishing return work on slows, since they (most certainly) stack mulitplicative you can never reduce it to zero. The math i used was pretty much an extreme example of everyone magaing to use theire slows at the exact same time
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